James McClean

[Garawa]

We all have choices, preferences, things we agree with or not and have to be different. Many are vehemently against all wars but most of those still support the boys doings the jobs none of us would dream of doing. So as a collective, if someone chooses not to do this they are effectively taking a stance against it. Why? How can you possibly not support a collective thankyou at the very least to an obscene amount of people that died so we can enjoy all the niceties in life including huge salaries for kicking a ball about. Good God, can't even give a moment to wear a sticker!

It's not about giving to charity really, I never bought a poppy (mostly because we didn't find any where we went) so I didn't directly support the charity. What struck me was when they read out the names. There are just over a thousand people living in my village now and the vast majority of houses were built in the late seventies. Between 50 and 60 names were read out as dying from the parish in WW1, it had to be half the village back then. If the village lost that many people now in would be devastating, back then..........? I can't even begin to imagine. Anyone so ungrateful for what they gave their lives for doesn't deserve anything at all.

[Rimshot]

With respect Mark, that's not an explanation it's just a statement of fact. As others are saying it's your right but a curious and impenetrable one. Never given to Charity ? Not once in your life been moved to help the needy, destitute, sick and starving ? Never wanted to show support for someone's efforts for Cancer care ?
That is hard to understand.

[Robpthegills]

when my brother in law died aged 37 I saw the McMillan nurses a charitable organisation at work and saw how wonderfull they were. This was compounded when my 38 year old sister in law died also of cancer.

I am a Trustee of a charity working in gillingham and without this charity nobody would do anything for the kids living on this estate.

It is true, some charities waste a lot of money on admin and rubbish but like anything you cant tar everybody or every organisation with the same brush.

I personally see it as my civic duty to give to charity. That said it is easy to give if you have something to give in the first place. However money is not always important, time is just as valuable.

I do not blame or criticise Mark for his stance, I would just suggest that maybe mark has not been in any circumstances whereby he can see a charity at work and therefore see the need for people to give.

I refused for YEARS to be a Organ Donor. It was only driving down to East Sussex that I heard a radio show and it asked the question. If my children needed an organ to save their life would I accept it. If the answer was Yes then how could you possibly not be a donor. I have been registered as a donor ever since.

I do not do sponsors and I do not give to bucket collectors (other than poppys) but thats because my giving is structured so dont feel the need.

If it wasnt for charities, most people who suffer from cancer in this country would suffer a whole lot more emotionally and physically. If it wasnt for charities there would be no help at all for the homeless (over 40% of homeless are said to be ex forces who cannot return to normal life due to emotional issues) there would be no help for the young children on the Vineries estate in gillingham whose only crime is being born to parents who do not know how to parent, spend all the money on drink/drugs regular beat their kids and wont allow them to do homework as they cannot read and write themselves so they get jelous. There would be far fewer species living in this wonderful world as nobody would have protected them, there would be nobody in the poorer countries trying to bring relief to a devastating existence. Whether its right or wrong that we need charities the fact is we do need them.

[steve347]

Republicans will never view the British army as a body worthy of respect, even if the fight against fascism liberated many in Europe from an appalling aggressor.
Few in Europe have any respect for the Irish Republic's actions in World War 2 and some are very resentful.

[Poshgill]

That is a sweeping statement Steve and just isn't true. I have a very close friend that is a confirmed Republican and is also a staunch supporter of the armed forces. He may not believe in fighting for Queen and country but he does believe in supporting the armed forces that died to defend our freedom.

As for Mark, I cannot believe you have never given to any charity. Everyone has done so at some stage even if it's a bucket collection or a work mate doing a charity parachute jump.Actually I never give to BC children in need but that is a personal choice.

[steve347]

OK That should have read some or many republicans.
That has really come from my own family where a number have served and are still serving in the forces and have suffered in various ways. And then you get one or two 'in your face ' relatives who are predisposed to upset others with very unkind views.

[Garawa]

But I don't see this as one particular event. This is in remembrance of all who died in a war that engrossed the whole world. When those names were read out in church, they were just names - how many were of republican belief or muslim for example I don't think anyone will ever know or even care. It was just a whole group of people that died from my immediate vicinity probably of all kinds of persuasions. To not join in due to a particular political stance sounds highly narrow minded and kind of irrelevant to me.

[Poshgill]

But you are being a little simplistic and naive Gary. This McClean may think he is being political by making this stance but not all people that refuse to support the poppy appeal do so for political reasons. There are many , like Quakers , that will oppose on moral grounds. In both world wars there were conscientious objectors to the war. Inthe first war they were imprisoned or made to go to the front as stretcher bearers. In the second war many were sent down the mines or became firemen. I believe that we shouldn't judge people because they don't support the appeal as long as they articulate their reluctance. Personally it is a charity I always support and I have previously had the honour of laying the wreath for fallen railway workers at the memorial at Victoria station.

[Garawa]

What doesn't help with this though is that football has been dragged through the gutter and I am sure he finds himself in a VERY small minority, a chance to help heal the divisions football created has only gone and got that little bit wider.

I see what you are saying Posh, however was he asked to support it or was it a case of simply being asked to wear a shirt? I bet none of the players were asked to pay into the charity in order to wear the shirt for that game so what's the issue. It must be very difficult to find someone who doesn't know anyone affected by the spoils of war and remembrance day covers all wars past and present. No-one asked him for a weeks wages, not even sure he was asked for anything at all just to show solidarity with those who had lost loved ones. All he has done is to go against what the vast majority believe to be just and right and show how football no longer represents those who fund their lucrative lifestyle.

[lidbid46]

So what did he do during the two minutes silence I wonder? If he stood silently in the centre like all the others did, then he was lending his support to the concept of rememberence anyway. If he ran around kicking a ball and continuing his normal pre match routine, that would have been very offensive, but more authentic. I don't see how wearing a poppy is much to do with the politics of today, or even of 70 years ago - it has to do with remembering the actions of millions of brave souls who were either killed or wounded fighting for our freedom. It is the individuals who I try to remember, not the politicians. Men like my dad, who was wounded on the D-Day beaches and who carried the scars until the day he died. Looking at his medals gives me an unbelievable sense of pride and would do so even if I didn't believe in the reasons for going to war, which in the case of the fight against facism, of course I do.