Homeland Security

[brb]

I thought I would take the opportunity to start a non football discussion on our new Gills website and air some of my frustrations in regards to homeland airport security.

On a recent trip back from the states through Miami airport, I encountered what I believe is an invasion of my civil liberties and basically what can be best described as overzealous security officers.

I fully understand the need for the level of security encountered at our airports but believe it would take some justification to describe the validity of the circumstances below.

As usual I approached the security check points, ensuring all coinage and metal objects such as keys were removed from pockets. I ensured belts and jacket was also removed to go through the security scanners. I had inadvertently forgotten the process of removing shoes and did so when prompted. So no problems up to this point.

Then I was stopped by a security officer and asked what I had in my pocket? I looked a bit dismayed and said nothing. To which I was asked to turn out my pockets. I did so without argument and found nothing more than a small paper tissue (you know the sort, to blow your nose on!). I was told that had to also be put in the tray on the belt and go through the scanner. Who was I to argue and duly obliged.

However, what I was not aware of was that EVERYONE had to go through a body scanner. Now unlike this country (to my belief), this is not an option but something you have to do.

So why all the fuss over what was in my pockets, let alone no pre warning that going through body scanners was mandatory in the states. Well I certainly was not going to argue after the fuss over something as simple as a paper tissue, they would have probably dragged me off to the cells, either that or shot me on site.

Just to cap this story off, the best bit I left to last...in my hand baggage, which I put through the scanner was an aerosol and a lighter (which I had forgotten about), so whilst on the plane, if I had any terrorist intentions, I could have created a flame thrower!!!

So weighing up all of my points above, the point of all the checks were what precisely? As far as I can summarise it was to see me naked allow me on with a flame thrower but make sure my paper tissue is scrutinised (contents and all)

[Mooke]

Can I just assure you that none of us want to see you naked with a flame thrower! The thought scares the bejesus out of me!

[steve347]

There is growing concern about the infringements of rights and of the constitution in the USA.
You can be detained without trial indefinitely under a very broad 'catch-all' piece of anti-terrorist law.
Police forces now have drones and weapons intended for a war zone!
The west is sailing towards a police state on the twin pincers of excessive socialism (spending) and corporatism / eliteism bleeding us dry. We have voted for goodies for free for a few elections now and there are consequences. We have many people doing nothing or in jobs that produce nothing. The bankers et al want continued money for losing at the casino. Spending cuts will have to be made or enforced by events (most likely). We are more in debt than any figures yet admitted.
There are no volunteers for austerity - no turkeys voting for Christmas.

The increase in the police state is getting ready for the times when the SHTF moment arrives.
Oh yes! and we will blame people as per the collapses in history - christians to lions, burn witches, guillotine counter-revolutionaries, gas Jews etc. And declare a few more wars around the world as distractions.

I prefer to play with the grandchildren, support the Gills and be a messageboard clown.

[Garawa]

That does seem to touch silly, seems like they got the important stuff the wrong way round.

There is a fine balance between civil liberties and a safe society. There is an article today that states how CCTV is now so large that with high resolution digital imaging, an individual can be followed virtually to their house and breaches human rights violations (I don't know many people who could be followed to that extent however)! It came the day after CCTV was used to find out who was in the area where little April Jones was abducted. So on the one hand we have some people who feel a bit upset to potentially (and God willing) finding a girl alive and well that perhaps would not have been the case. I think we have to accept that as society gets more advanced in ways to hurt people then we must counteract it with a little compromise to our liberties.

They definitely got the balance wrong in your case though BRB. I'm not even sure that the concerns that are given for CCTV are even genuine, there cannot be loads people lying around trying to follow people???!!! I don't even think I'd mind people seeing me "naked"! The last time I went on a plane worried about it all I dropped my trousers and was arrested so I don't think they want to! That was a joke before anyone takes offence!

[lidbid46]

I think I should report you to the moderator Gary! Oh, that's you!!

[gillsfan1066]

The "line" between a Police State, and a Happy Safe Place to live is increasingly becoming thinner and thinner. Gangs are every where in the big cities, to join certain gangs you have to kill an "innocent person", where the hell did that come from?
Arabic terrorists who lets be honest are so pathetic and basic in their tactics have got the whole Free World in an absolute panic, searched going into a concert, football match, how long befor a trip to the store will mean going through a metal detector?
I really must be getting old , I remember when a flight ment you had to be there half hour befor boarding time, now two hours seems to be the norm.
Still I guess it gives people jobs and oh by the way we saw your pics on You Tube today, made copies and the girls are using them as a dart board in the lunch room , ouch sorry, dam that must have hurt, Rosie be careful girl,who the hell put that "little thing" where treble 19 is supposed to be haha .

[Robpthegills]

I think the point has been missed here tbh.

Yes in 1066 case it seems overzelous.

Still makes me laugh then when I buy breakfast at the airport the Knifes have been made blunt and the prongs on the fork reduced to stubs for security measures. Maybe I am going to eat someone on the plane..

However when worrying about the police state lets just remember some simple things.

Our secret service do not always release information as to what terrorists threats there are or have prevented. I know for an absolute fact that several attempts in Greenwich and Bluewater
have been thwarted and it is an ongoing concern. However to release every success story would be to let the public now just HOW active these people are in our country. That would mean
people would stop visiting tourist spots, they would not visit the large shopping malls etc etc which would seriously damage the economy (whatever is left of it) which would mean the terrorists would win. We are under CONSTANT attack and we need this security. If you dont think we are under constant attack then you are basically not in touch with reality.

I do not pretend to know half or all or what is going on, but I do know some, and personallly I WELCOME a little bit of inconvenience to be able to walk our streets safely.

Our security is on a no win scenario. If they act over handedly people complain, if they miss something people complain. Oh if people only spent half as long judging there own failures maybe we wouldnt have such a moany society.

[brb]

I think the point has been missed here tbh.

Yes in 1066 case it seems overzelous.

Still makes me laugh then when I buy breakfast at the airport the Knifes have been made blunt and the prongs on the fork reduced to stubs for security measures. Maybe I am going to eat someone on the plane..

However when worrying about the police state lets just remember some simple things.

Our secret service do not always release information as to what terrorists threats there are or have prevented. I know for an absolute fact that several attempts in Greenwich and Bluewater
have been thwarted and it is an ongoing concern. However to release every success story would be to let the public now just HOW active these people are in our country. That would mean
people would stop visiting tourist spots, they would not visit the large shopping malls etc etc which would seriously damage the economy (whatever is left of it) which would mean the terrorists would win. We are under CONSTANT attack and we need this security. If you dont think we are under constant attack then you are basically not in touch with reality.

I do not pretend to know half or all or what is going on, but I do know some, and personallly I WELCOME a little bit of inconvenience to be able to walk our streets safely.

Our security is on a no win scenario. If they act over handedly people complain, if they miss something people complain. Oh if people only spent half as long judging there own failures maybe we wouldnt have such a moany society.

Rob I mean this respectfully but I feel you have slightly missed the point of my original OP or did you mean to say brb not 1066?

Although just to confirm, I was not complaining about the inconvenience but more the boundaries of where the fine line is drawn between security, over zealous and intrusion of my own personal civil liberties. Firstly I should add the checks made were done leaving the states not entering it, although I fully accept our security is of the utmost regardless your destination of travel as terrorism will have no boundaries. However, in this instance, I felt this nothing more than a person stating I wear the badge. While still excluding my thoughts on body scanners.

So I ask where do we actually draw the line and are actually allowed to stand up and speak out?

To clarify some history:
I have frequently flown for many, many years. I hold a new bio passport with sufficient stamps to ensure its validity. I have had my fingers prints taken more times than I care to count. I have had my photo taken on every entry point. I have been asked every basic personal question from my intentions of my trip, to questions about my employment, relationship with my next of kin etc etc. Their data base probably holds more information on me than I know myself - lol = add to that all the airport security checks that I mentioned in the OP.

So you would have thought by now with all this technology, it could be put to better use/development in ensuring freedom of movement. Although I believe that would not suit their goal.

Where I draw the line is why do they feel the need to step in to my personal space unnecessarily about irrelevant material that will be completely shown up in the body scanners. Add to this, I travelled in premium class, where we were given a proper metal knife and fork plus glassware!

Therefore I feel we have gradually eroded our freedom of movement under the blanket of terrorism and lost all sense of proportion. When you weigh up the entire circumstances, the checks carried out on me completely contradict everything once you have passed through security. Let alone surely my identity and intentions were already established on original entry?

Something is seriously wrong with a global system that treats me as though I might be the next terrorist and you have to question its real intentions or even failings of the entire modern security data system if they do not know who I am.

As I say Rob with respect and not having a go, just how I see it though my ageing eyes.

[Robpthegills]

Hiya 1066, sorry mate, re reading my post it comes across as a bit of a rant which wasnt its intention.

As I said I agree with what you was saying it is all a bit daft.

I once forgot to take a pair of tweezers out of my hand luggage and they were confiscated. What was I going to do pinch someone to death.

I was just sticking up for the guys who do the real anti terrorism thing I guess.

1066 you can argue with me all you want mate I wont take it personall, one of the things that some people couldnt understand on the old board was the difference with
debate, argument or just abuse. I give poshgill loads of grief over his misled politics but still love the guy to bits (in a masculine, drinking a bud, watching footie kind of way lol)

Sorry If I didnt put my point across very well or it sounded like a dig, certainly wasnt meant that way matey, and if you do all that flying get yourself over here so we can meet up for a
beer. I will get Kezz to pay