cameron

[Robpthegills]

Well, voted since the late 70's, all through the 80's 90's and the last decade. Voted tory as my honest belief was that I was voting for the correct party at the time. Only time i waivered was when Smith was in charge of labour but he unfortunately passed away gifting the leadership to Blair. Such a shame as I believed him to be a great man.

However Cameron will be the first tory leader during my voting life to turn me away from the tories. Have no idea who to vote for. libdems have shown themselves for what they are, labour might be an option if they got rid of clueless miliband but seriously its not looking good poltically for anyone to be taken serious.

Yes it is the gay marriage thing that will take me away from the tories. Cameron is acting like blair doing what the thinks is popular not neccesarily right. Well good luck to him. Cannot vote for a party that can try and push this through without any true consultation.

I suppose i could vote for nobody and just ensure i am out of the country a lot lol.

[Garawa]

I try to be be a bit more objective on this. I feel the Tories are doing a poor job, but I honestly feel all other parties would fair exactly the same. On the subject of the economy every decision would be the wrong one, their was no right answer and mistakes would be made by anyone so I base it on track record and I trust the Tories more than Labour on that!

Where I do sympathise with the Tories is being made out to always doing the opposite to the right thing. The general consensus with most people I speak to (and on here) was that the country had major concerns over the sums given to some families who had never worked. Yet the Tories plans to limit this amount (more than our total household income) was met with derision and claims that the poorest would be hit hardest. Then came the plans to kerb immigration (another major concern for many) and that was basically removed from their hands. We had Mr Hamza's extradition only to be told "Oh no you don't!". We had the country clamouring for Cameron to not allow the EU to increase subsidies when we all had all faced cuts. The PM went to Europe and stated the UK would not support increases and ITV and Labour went nuts saying it would "alienate us from Europe" and on the subject of the referendum that he could be the PM that "lost us our place in the EU" despite before calling for a referendum themselves so that the public could truely have their say (how would the PM be responsible if the majority of the people who elected him chose that option themselves)??????

I really get irate when news is turned on its head just to maintain a story. The guy will do no right and we won't ever get a chance to see if their plans for the economy had worked because they will have been turfed out well before it started to pay off. I cannot see anyone else achieving anything at all different but I feel they are more secure, one interest hike and we will lose everything in this country mark my words. Things are SERIOUS yet people still have the latest Iphone and spend on luxuries like never before. People don't realise how bad things are and still want the best, they wont wait 8 months let alone 8 years.

As for Rob's issue, the issue of gay marriage ranks quite low for me in priorities and they have to be concerned about trying to please too many people. Perhaps they should just concentrate on quality of life starting with the economy. Trouble is that won't win any elections as it bores people to tears. Sad really.

[gillsfan1066]

Although I do not know many openly gay people ,my experience of married gay couples has always been very positive. Here in Chicago I can honestly say the vast majority of gay couples seem to be extremely well balanced people, most have good jobs, professional people that contribute to the country's economy, by paying taxes etc.
They recently past a law here stating that openly gay men can now be Boy Scout Leaders , in the bar a discussion started when several guys said they would not let their kids go to camp with a gay Scout Leader.
Laughable really, gay men want to have sex with underage boys, I hardly think so , no more than a normal heterosexual man wants to have a sexual relationship with an underage girl. But of course they are not my kids so ?
I have a friend who occasionaly does some handyman jobs for us, he has worked at the same company for 23 years and never had a day off sick. Only been earning minimum wage but recently was laid off. His unemployment benefit ,$810 p.m. for 6 months , then it ends, his rent $820 p.m.
In the apartment above his there is an immigrant couple from Europe ,nice folks always very pleasant when I see them, the husband works as a delivery driver earning minimum wage about $1600p.m. with a bit of overtime and pays NO taxes because they have 3 children under the age of 10 and the Govt. gives them about $400 a month in food stamps, gives the mother $400 allowance for rent,clothing, clothes etc,plus medical and pays for the kids school dinners. She also gets to visit the food banks in the area, Churches, Synagogues etc and take home food , vegetables etc that are donated by local companies.
Her mother and father arrived a couple of years ago, now the Govt is paying for the mother's medical expenses because she has some problems with high blood pressure etc, even though they have never done a days worth of work in the USA, never contributed a single cent to the country.
When I asked the guy one day how his mother and father can afford to live here not working, I was informed, They have a nice farm which is rented out and they get a good income from that. What's the term GOBSMACKED?

[Poshgill]

Well everyone knows my views on Cameron and the Tory party per se, so I won't go into detail again, except to say that Gary's view that everyone else would struggle in the current economic climate isn't necessarily accurate. The same as welfare reform. Yes, there needs to be some reform, but the constant propaganda against the unemployed or Public Service is just detracting from the real issues. The main one being that Bankers got the country into this mess and yet they are still being held up as the saviours of our society. There does need to be a 'grown -up' debate on immigration. Unfortunately, you either get tagged as a loony leftie or it brings out the 'send them all home' brigade. All I want is a politician to discuss the issue without spurious claims that immigrants are either coming over here to take all our work or coming over here to take all our benefits. They can't be doing both can they?

As for gay marriage. Rob is not alone in his stance on this. Many Tory voters are appalled by Camerons views and his decision to vote on gay marriage. The worry I have is that these disaffected Tories will start to vote for the moronic UKIP and that awful bigot Nigel Farage. The man is bonkers and should have no credibility in any walk of life. But, unfortunately, when the world is in turmoil, the rise of the far right grows. As we are about to go into a triple-dip recession (unprecedented in British History!) it is inevitable that the Politics of hate will prosper.

Personally, my objection is the way gay people have been held up as role models. Many youngsters are sexually confused in their early teens. Many have crushes on people of the same-sex, but generally they grow out of it. If you have openly gay teachers, Boy Scout leaders, footballers etc, this is then seen as acceptable. It isn't. The natural order is for men and women to be together. Nature determines that and that is how we procreate. If it was natural to be homosexual, then we would all be hermaphrodites. If Society shows homosexuality as a normal thing, young people will think it is ok and instead of growing to be themselves they will think it is right to be gay. Of course, some youngsters with these feelings will ultimately be gay but I am sure many kids would also grow out of it and find out that they are not.

Don't get me wrong. I'm no homophobe. That last sentence might make you think I am, but I'm honestly not. I have a few gay friends. Women and men. I know a couple that have been together 20 years. I also know that quite a few gay people don't agree with marriage either.

[Rimshot]

My political views are also well known but I agree that the media now has an agenda about Cameron. The thing is - it's exactly the same for every PM/government now, irrespective of its politics. At first the 'story' is how the new administration/PM has a new vision, what it will do differently, etc etc. Then media gets bored with this and wants new stories to write or broadcast so it activates endlessly to run negative stories about the incumbent party.

Actually, Cameron's biggest problem is not Europe or Gay Marriage - it's the LibDems - the former party of the pious, untainted-by-power, and self-satisfied middle class, now horribly exposed as political prostitutes without scruple or policy. Poor old DC got into bed with them and now he can't escape their clammy embrace.

Sympathy from me......I don't think so.

[Robpthegills]

very good point rimshot.

Libdems have offered themselves up before in the past and finally got a taker.

I do not think this option will ever be taken again.

Come the next election I think we will see the libdems all but cease to exist as a political party.

One of my concerns is allied with one of posh's concerns. That disenchanted tories will flood to UKIP. Please look into them, read up on their leadership before making what many think is a simple jump. It is a terrible jump. UKIP is not the answer.

Maybe if labour got rid of the 8 year old king miliband they could be taken seriously. The fact they are not closing even now is down to him.

This press nowadays just has a witch hunt for everyone, whilst painting 2 bit wannabes as important role models. The press in this country is Shite

[Garawa]

UKIP are the most vile hypocrates of all. Anyone who can oppose Europe so vehemently, refuse to turn up but still take the money it offers shows their true intentions.

[Elgrande]

I have been waiting for the outrage ref Mid Stafford NHS (and NHS in General) and the Libor scandal, but surprise, surprise as it happened under Nu Labours watch and under the noses of Gordons creation, the FSA there seems to be just a whimper. I guess that means it is only serious when it happens under the Tories?

[Poshgill]

Sorry Elg, I'm not sure what relationship the FSA has with the NHS. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

Of course, no one can be anything but concerned about Stafford and other under performing hospitals, but I'm not entirely sure what they have to do with Govt policy. I would guess, although I have to confess of not reading the report, that this is more to do with local management decisions rather than National Policy. If it was National, then all hospitals would be the same, when quite clearly, they are not. There appear to be 5 hospitals under review and these fall under the management of 2 Strategic Health Authorities (out of 10 SHA's Nationally) NHS North West and NHS East of England. Now, there are 2 Hospitals under review in the East of England NHS out of 31 Hospitals. That would suggest to me that this is a local issue rather than a national one with several hospitals in the same SHA receiving top marks and glowing praise.

Of course, for those poor families that have suffered loss because of poor service or management, then that is little consolation, however, it is interesting to note that the author of the current report has failed to mention any individual, be they nurses, Doctors or administrators. It is also worth noting that the report was commissioned by the Labour govt in Feb 2010 and the current administration came to power in May 2010.

[Elgrande]

Libor = FSA.
It wasn't just Stafford, Maidstone Hospital killed nearly 100 in a year, there were a lot of reports and complaints. As the report states there is a culture of secrecy in the NHS and Labour were too scared to upset their paymasters. Much of NHS is great, but there is a culture of malevolant indifference to the care of the elderly. The younger nurses with their degrees believe they are above a bit of TLC, but are just medical pratitioners.