USA

[lidbid46]

When will America learn? Civillians and guns just do not mix - too many unstable people exist. My heart goes out to all those killed or wounded and to their families. Understandably, I am thinking about the teachers and school staff who went to work this morning to educate children and may not have returned home; makes everything else I was thinking about and looking forward to pale into insignificance.

[gillsfan1066]

With all due respect, I think you are opening a can of worms that I would guess you do not properly understand, no offence intended and I mean that Today I sat with about a dozen people watching this travesty unfold,most are parents, not one had a dry eye when we heard that 20 kids had been killed by some lunatic.
I will almost guarantee the guns were bought illegally by someone without a permit, probably a guy that has spent his teens playing violent video games.
Just like drunks should not be driving cars, mentally disturbed idiots should not have guns, but then they would have knives insted like the idiot in China yesterday.
Guns don't kill people, the idiot pulling the trigger does.

[Kezz]

That is a good point Chicago, but America seem to have tragedies like this on such a massive scale, to the rest of the world it appears that the Americans right to arm themselves is the problem. As you say, nutcases will always find a way.

Thoughts and prayers are with all concerned today.

[lidbid46]

And with all the respect due to you, of course I don't understand, along with 99.99999999999% of the rest of the World's civilised population. According to the news reports here, the guns were legally owned by the Mother, who simply had them stored in the house. Why does anyone need four powerful guns in their home? You can only defend yourself with one at a time. Teachers must go to school everyday wondering whether today is the day, even vaguely in the back of their minds, that it is their school's turn. Parents must feel slightly nervous every time they take their children to school. Yes, I know this is an emotional response, I don't apologise for that. We had an intruder in my school last year who was eventually detained under the mental health act - thank goodness he wasn't armed or even violent, but in America he could have had a gun or four and may have been tempted to use it. So I admit, I don't understand, I can't understand how the status quo is acceptable and I don't want to listen to pro gun lobbiests and their arguments - this has to stop now!

[gillsfan1066]

In the 70's I used to vacation on the Dalmatian coast of a small civalised country nestled into civalised arm pit of Italy. Thanks civalised world for letting 1/8Th of a million mainly civalised people have their lives ended because of a few nut jobs with guns, but that was OK they were called an army.
Americans have 2ND Amendments rites for a reason.
Australia baned guns. First year cost to the Tax Payer $500 million, assaults up 10%, ARMED ROBBERY UP 44%. In the US they had prohibition, Morning Mr Capone and all the other bad guys, who's Empires grew to epic proportions thanks to illegal weapons.
Take away the good guys guns and within a few months the bad guys would be running the streets, gang warfare in major cities would reach epic proportions normal civalised people would not be able to walk the streets to go to work.
Only a few months ago my wife and I were returning from friends who live in a small town just south of Chicago. Half way up one of the major city streets a vehicle pulled along side mine with what appeared to be about 4 14 year old kids, one in the back seat waving a gun at us in our car and all laughing . You think he got that gun legally?
Before you ask was I prepared to kill this kid, you dam well bet your *ing bottom dollar I was, every dam one of them in the car, you can scream all about the others only being guilty by association in court at a later date, thats why I have a Glock and a permit in my glove compartment
As it happened we past a parked police car and I was able to hit the breaks and they went off in pursuit, who knows the end result, but I tell you one thing there is no way some 14 year old thug is going to kill me or her while I am driving up a road minding my own P's and Q's without me fighting back.
Find away to take away all the bad guys guns and I will happily turn mine over so it can go to the smelter and be turned into tin cans or what ever. OK well first I would have to ask my employer, it is technically there's, although ironically I bought it.
Like most people in the US today my heart goes out to the parents of the children who were so senselessly murdered in Newtown yesterday, an unthinkable and surreal act performed by some moronic chicken sh** spineless coward, but when I go out to the Mall today I will make sure my 17 is nice and warm tucked neatly into my civalised jacket inside pocket.

[Robpthegills]

This is a poor argument against america. Everyone is united in there sadness for all people involved in the latest incident, however it is not an american problem.

We have had our incidents over here. look at all the shootings in manchester over the last couple of years. The amount of murders involving knives in London.

The fact this seems to happen in america more often is because its 20 odd times bigger than us, so consequently its going to happen more often.

I had 2 people try to rob me in brixton just 8 weeks ago with a gun, lucky for me I sensed something was wrong, tried to lock myself in the car when luckily a police car came around the corner. On seeing the police one of the offenders removed a black handgun from his jeans, ditched it ont he floor and legged it. Within 4 minutes maximum i had 8 armed police by my side, carrying both pistols and automatics. So london is obviously swamped with guns as is manchester otherwise I fail to see how they could get a 8 man unit there so fast..

I think it makes us brits feel good to think that things are always worse in america. Every experience I have had of america has been a fantastic one.

[lidbid46]

Actually I'm very fond of America and have spent a fair amount of time living there over the years. Of course this happens in other countries, but not other civilised and so powerful countries. There have been so many chances to do something about guns, which will obviously kill more people than knives, but nothing ever happens. To argue that because of situations like this there should be more weapons available, as a Congressman has today is just beyond my comprehension. This is a genuine question - how many times over say, the last year, has any law abiding citizen in America actually defended him/herself successfully against a violent criminal using a gun? I'm sure it happens, but how often? I would have thought not very often. How many people have been killed or injured due to firearm accidents? Now suggestions are being made that teachers and school staff, firefighters and ambulance crew should be routinely armed, in what is supposed to be the most advanced country in the World. How can that be right? I really do not get it.

[Robpthegills]

To be honest lidvid, I think the only real prevention would be to make it automatic life sentence for anybody carrying a firearm or an imitation firearm.

These kids in london come from horrible rotton estates they kill someone with a knife and get just a couple of years custody in a property with central heating, sky tv, 3 full meals a day and a fully equipped gym. Hardly a deterrent.

Maybe if they got 10 years for possession and the jail they went to was void of any luxuries they might think about carrying a weapon.

[gillsfan1066]

You want facts and figures lidbid, lol mate they will blow your mind. I know it did mine.
Nearly SEVEN THOUSAND TIMES A DAY, or about 2.5 million times a year, a gun is used to protect someone or their property in the USA.
Guns are used 80 times more to protect a life than to take a life. Less than 8% of the time when a gun is produced while a crime is being committed is the weapon fired.
There are as many as 420 million guns in America today, not bad considering the population is only 310 million. They say the average 16 year old has seen 10,000 murders and deaths on tv, and we wonder why
About 80 people a day are murdered by guns, and about 300 injured,during approximately 3000 crimes each day, over 75% of the guns are fired by people who are in possession of the gun illegally and there are loads and loads of suicides which I have not included in these numbers.
The main problem here is that if they baned guns tomorrow morning and all the loyal good citizens turned them in how many bad guys would be running the streets by Monday ?
How many cars in England,25million and how many people drive illegally, no insurance, no license , they say about 100,000 minimum, and how many legal drivers drive drunk and cause accidents, latest estimate about 20 % (which means 80% of sober drivers cause most accidents, good reason for everyone to drive drunk,lol) but how can you stop it ?
Of course it is easy to stop drink driving, cars can be fitted with a breathalyser which has to be blown in to if you want to start the car, simple and inexpensive, do you want to have to do that every time you start your car?
How about if you and the misses pop up to The Malta Inn have a meal and a couple of glasses of plonk, your .001 over the limit, then you have to sit in the parking lot for an hour and a half while you get legal, are you OK with that??
Reading the list of names of the dead children and their ages today made us cry,no one wants things like this to happen, lets just hope it never happens again.

[Poshgill]

Facts and figures? OK, here are some for you: With less than 5% of the world's population, the United States is home to roughly 50 per cent of the world's civilian-owned guns. The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people, However, the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people. But, the significant fact is, out of what is perceived to be the developed countries, the US has by far the worst gun crime stats.

In 2011 there were 14 Gun deaths in the UK. 58 in Sweden, 269 in Germany and 9,369 in the US. Unbelievable figures. The fact that the frequency of mass shootings in the US is on the increase surely means that something needs to be done to tackle the reason.

Now, the absurd Amendment that says everyone has the right to bear arms, (it would be safer to arm bears!) which might have been relevant when the Constitution was written in 1776 (but then, burning witches at the stake was also popular then too!) surely needs to be revised for the 21st century. OK, I might just be able to accept that the Americans have to have a handgun for personal protection. But what the hell does the average bloke on the street need an assault rifle for? The madman that shot the school up in Connecticut used mainly an assault rifle? How does a 20 year old get his hands on such a killing instrument and why would they be available to buy anyway?

It is a spurious argument to compare guns to cars. (personally I think there should be a zero tolerance to drink driving. I won't even get in the car today as I was on it all yesterday!)but Japan has virtually eradicated gun crime by banning all guns with a 1 to 10 prison term for owning one and similar sentences for firing one. Obviously, that will never happen in the states as a) The NRA are too powerful and b) there is no political will to change. But, what should and could be done immediately is the restriction for sale of assault weapons.