Southend winding up petition

[Garawa]

I really don't agree Posh. Firstly they cannot complain about cuts and then frivolously lose money by not bothering to do things correctly. The MOD at the time of the first bout of cuts were complaining and then ordered fancy chairs to replace relatively new ones to the tune of £6m. Hardly going to win sympathy with the public wondering if they could pay the next month's mortgage.

We are well past the point of political persuasions when it comes to discussing the economy, it is a case of doing the dirty deed whoever it is. I think what is being done is all that COULD be done even if it was Labour doing it. Points scoring now is churlish and dangerous. As for the AAA rating surely the coalition should be applauded! It was never going to remain given the level of debt we had so the length it lasted was commendable. America lost theirs in 2011, France last year and Germany, the beacon of European economic light, came dangerously close. Labour will seal an easy win (I always thought they would as people rarely look at what actually goes on) and yet they seem solely intent on acting like children telling blatent lies!

The one that really angers me is the income tax one. Trying to blind the public with numbers they are trying to make the 10% tax sexy because no-one cares (or even know) about the personal allowance. When the Tories came to power the threshold was £6,035 and next year will be £9,205, that is a pretty hefty jump meaning a lot won't pay tax at all. And yet Millibland wants to woo us by offering us 10%. I know this is on the first few thousand after allowances had been removed but this costs money for HMRC to administer (and we have seen how they use that money!) so why not increase the tax-less threshold further? Under this government we now pay around £600 less tax but could be around £100 worse off under the Labour scheme. They also hide these with the regular calls that the Tories "let off the rich" when most economists accept that raising taxes for the well off simply LOSES the exchequer money such as France's idiotic 75% rate, people will simply lower their earnings to pay less tax and take home more! (See David Beckham's "Wages to charity" PR).

The Tories have a lot to answer to, they have done a lot wrong but I don't see anyone else showing they have the balls to do different. And as for cuts, all the time I see waste upon waste I cannot disagree with it.

[Rimshot]

Actually they don't lower their 'earnings' at all, they simply have them paid differently, with bonuses, share options,pension contributions and so on. In large companies Directors' earnings have continued to grow at double digit rates in every year throughout the recession and, with apologies to all the Thatcher enthusiasts, you can see the origins of this trend in her period of government.

We were all encouraged to believe that the only motivator was money and conspicuous consumption became its public face. You can argue all you like that successive Labour governments made no real effort to change that but the enthusiastic architects of capitalism's crisis in the UK are Tories to a man.

I run a business and I am not a fan of totalitarianism, enforced egalitarianism or communism. I do believe, however, that a properly progressive tax system should be made to work and that one way of doing so would be to debar financial services consultancies which advise major corporations on how to evade tax from getting huge public sector contracts.

[Robpthegills]

Strikes me that the tories are trying to do something about the top earners and those trying to evade tax.

Something labour didnt do in 3 terms of office. So blame who you want but the current govt with all its faults does appear to be trying to
address the issue which labour didnt.

As for courting the rich and wealthy, labour couldnt have snuggled up closer to rich behind the casinos and gambling sites more if they had tried.

most wealth or debt takes a cycle to evolve.

Miliband has admitted Old labour caused the country numerous problems with its open door policy. A society not prepared to work for a living didnt evolve over 2 years it evolved over labour years.

Still no one seems to be able to move forward without a side swipe at Maggie. I remember the miners strike, I also remember the strikers blocking the entrances to the pits so that other people could not carry out their daily jobs. lorry drivers couldnt work. Miners who wanted to work had their homes damaged and the health threatened. Maybe thats why such a large police presence was required. Maybe if people had acted legally then things might have been different. But its more romantic to remember the struggle of the ailing miner against the big bad police force and its government. When I was up in sunderland most of the miners were desperate to go back to work but couldn't/didnt for fear of reprisals.

Labours picture of the miners strike is as flawed as americas view of the hard down trodden irish under the english.

Still, all we hear is labour people moaning about the Tories, yet still no recognition that Labour had 3 terms to change things and they didn't.

I am not even tory anymore, I have no idea who I will vote for at the moment, it wont be ukip, maybe it would be labour if they wake up and start telling us what they intend to do instead of harping on about the past.

[Rimshot]

It's no sideswipe, it's reality. I agree that Labour should have done much more to regulate but I have absolutely no doubt Rob that you and all the other people voting Tory at that time would have screamed foul.

[Poshgill]

There were no winners in the miners dispute. The whole country was brought to the brink of civil war by 2 intransigent people that were very similar in character. However to blame the miners is simplistic and wrong. The country was dependent on coal in those days and the govt was importing much dearer coal from Poland to weaken the miners claims. There was also evidence that armed forces personel were masquerading as Police officers and provoking the miners so that the country would turn against them. Waving £10 notes in the faces of miners and wearing badges that said ASPOM (Arthur Scargill pays our mortgage). The country has never recovered from the devestating effects of the dispute and spelt the death-knell for British Manufacturing. Ironically, all those right wingers that are calling for our withdrawl from Europe should realise that we no longer have a manufacturing base here.

I knew many miners from Kent coalfields. Decent, honest hardworking people that were kicked badly by the govt and their own union. Sadest for me though is the total devestation of their communities and because the press was in the pocket of the Tories, the lies printed about these decent people were believed by many.

I was never a fan of Heseltine, but him and Vince Cable were spot-on on Question time last week when they said that the problem with our Welfare state is not people not wanting to work (straight from the tabloids that one and so untrue). The problem is that we have no social housing and the welfare budget is out of control as local councils have to pay extortionate rent to Private landlords. In fact, Heseltine went so far as to say that the one policy of the 80s that he would change if possible would be the sale of council houses. I said at the time, it was a disaterous move by a failing regime to win popularity and it worked. Short term politics again.

As for this govt trying to do tackle the top earners! I nearly fell off my chair in disbelief. If you think a cut in the top rate of income tax will benefit anyone other than the very wealthy, then I think you are mistaken. There are fewer than 40 days until April 6th - when 13,000 millionaires will get a £100,000 tax cut. Labour did do something about the top earners. They imposed a rate of 50% which Cameron and Co have been verty quick to lower.

[Robpthegills]

As you know Posh, I actually agree with a lot of what your last post says.

I agree about the sale of social housing.

Just ONE big matter to point out. NEVER were any soldiers dressed up as policemen to antogonise Miners. A riddiculous statement that has grown in urban myth. Think of it sensibly. Where do most squaddies come from, they come from traditionally the poorest estates in the country, the heartland of labour, its sheer nonsense to think they would get involved.

Anyway, I worked with all the policemen that had new cars or new houses due to the strike. Thing is posh its a bit like a footballer and the fans. The fans call a player a Waker and cut for hours then get upset when the player mouths a word back or does a hand gesture. The police had to tolerate loads of verbal abuse and physical abuse at the hands of the miners, so guess what They gave the miners some back. Well good on them.

I was at the Horsham live animal exportation demonstrations in the late eighties. Spark plugs, fishing weights and used tampax thrown at us for hours on end.....I can tell you now, we didnt treat the ladies pleasantly if we ever did get our hands on them.

I still think you are Totally BLIND about people wanting to work. You just shrug your shoulders and say it is a newspaper thing. No its not. I have struggled to find people, whilst offering a good wage. The hop fields and fruit fields in Kent have to Import thousands of immigrants every summer, whilst our high streets are full of english people drinking 8% lager and smoking weed whilst shoplifting their daily bread. Go to gillingham high street any day of the week and witness it. 10am in the morning. In the past you have said its because we do not give them incentives..............why do we always have to do everything for them.

Yes maggie did bring in more expensive coal to break the back bone of the miners. Well bearing in mind what the Unions had just done to the last labour govt they needed pegging back a thing or to.
I am an advocate of unions, they have a place and their place is absolutely paramount to a success within large organisations. Until they start to think they are larger than the organisation and forget who pays the bill's.

As I have said lots and lots of times on here though is this simple fact. All the tory or right voting people on here seem to recognise the failings of the Torys and the current govt, however there never ever ever seems to be any recognition of the absolute dire Piss hole labour put us into or the things they have done wrong by the labour or socialists on here.

Oh and by the way Maggie apologised for stealing the childrens milk is she now as acceptable as Heseltine

[Robpthegills]

took this off of facebook. Though Provoking if nothing else


An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no... one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

[Poshgill]

I just wrote an interesting and erudite response (albeit rather long!) to Rob and pressed the wrong button on my laptop and lost the lot!

I have neither the time nor the inclination to re-write it again so all I can say is

Boll#!s!

[Rimshot]

Agreed Posh, it's just a series of Christmas Cracker platitudes.

[Robpthegills]

in YOUR opinion Rimshot and Posh

but not the opinion of the majority of the country as your party is not in power

Christmas Cracker hmmmm oh sorry rimshot does somebody dare disagree with you.

As for the socialism thing it looks about right to me.

Or are only socialists allowed opinions, well some socialists anyway.