Southend winding up petition

[Garawa]

Well I all I can say is Southend Utd, hope your blooming pleased with yourselves! Look what you have started and you get what you deserve, lol!

Just going back to Rob's facebook post, whilst I understand where Posh and Rimshot are coming from with it, it is an analogy. Surely aren't all analogies simplified ways of saying things? It made me think out it in a way I previously hadn't, wasn't that the idea? It wasn't to blind me into propaganda. Life is far too complex to simply put into specific boxes and perhaps all the country's problems over the decades is because governments tried to do just that. Maybe we need to accept that socialism, capitalism or whatever is now dead as a concept and we need to start embracing elements of each instead of political parties insisting "but we have always done X".

[Poshgill]

It is not an analogy Gary, it is blatant propaganda and typical of American 'simplification'. You cannot equate Socialism with school grades. Whilst on the face of it, it looks to have 'explained' socialism, in reality it is a bit of clever propaganda. An analogy is a comparison between two different things in order to highlight some point of similarity but you have to be comparing apples with apples. There has to be some reference to the similarity. In this case there is no similarity.

As for your assessment that "Maybe we need to accept that socialism, capitalism or whatever is now dead as a concept and we need to start embracing elements of each instead of political parties insisting "but we have always done X"

Well, in reality, we have only ever had one proper Socialist Govt in this country and that was Atlee's Govt from 45 -51. All the other Labour regimes we have had since, have not been proper Socialist Govt. The have been slightly Left wing but more centrist really. And the truth is, everything that is great about this country, Great Health Service, wonderful Education system, (until the 80s) a world class manufacturing base, a proper welfare system, a state pension, all this was set-up in 5 short years. As I said in my last post, we need to get back to proper Socialism and educate people into the fact that it isn't a dirty word and bears no relationship with communism (which many people mistakenly believe!)

[Rimshot]

Much as I agree with your analysis Posh I don't think societies can ever 'get back to' former times. No 'isms' have a monopoly on wisdom and virtually all governments, like almost all football managers, get fired. Exceptions being respectively North Korea and Sir Alex Ferguson ( the latter by his own statement a firm believer in Socialism which is ironic given his management style). In a democracy ALL governments fail and fall. Undoubtedly Churchill's leadership helped to win the war and the first thing most of the returning soldiers did was vote him out of office.

I no longer trust in doctrines, I believe governments should be motivated by firm general principles based on equality of opportunity, freedom, meritocracy, proper social welfare, economic and personal security...probably all the same thing other boardsters do to be honest. The pursuit of those ideals is often hampered by echoes of the past . For me it's better to do a u-turn than run up a dead-end.

I think the social democracy route has more to offer than any other, that's why I vote Labour and may always do so. It's not a slavish devotion to a dogma and I don't suggest anyone else's opinion is either. Just for the record , I think we got the wrong Milliband as leader. Another fine mess Stanley !! He reminds me of a Wallace and Gromitt character, all bulgy eyes, rubber necked and with a weird voice. So much for my astute political critique ! Don't vote for bulgy eyes !

On Cameron, what can be said ...hopefully the last knockings of a class system where people talk about 'jerry-cans' and 'kitchen suppers' like we all have servants quarters and a choice of four vintage clarets in the cellars. I give you also Michael Gove, the man who invented smug and who has been trying very hard to f**k-up my daughter's education.

Still at least DC has to open a door to get through it, whereas that creep Clegg just slide underneath. He's oilier than Bahrein

The UKIP chap on the other hand is quite clearly clinically insane. It will be a good test of the electorate to see if we Brits have enough of a sense of humour to encourage his puerile campaign.

Ah well that's me...hopefully enough material there to upset everyone.

[Garawa]

Ha ha, Rimshot. Mind you mentioning Farage got my back up. I never normally wish ill of people but the worst day in British politics was when he survived that helicopter crash. I can see a massive change in politics and him reaping the rewards. His extreme views will almost certainly degrade us to a third world country! Maybe I'm being a bit melodramatic but anything we have suffered under recent governments will be nothing when ruined by that lot of racists.

[Elgrande]

Blair and Brown encouraged the "want it now" society as much as Thatcher. Sold the gold, emptied the pension pot and created the FSA who allowed mortgages to get out of control so everyone was re-mortgaging, buying the 4 bed David Wilson detached when what they could really afford was a three bed terrace in Strood! A society was created where nearly everyone earning under £30,000 pa was entitled to some sort of benefit. Pensioners who had saved for their retirement were rewarded by seeing those who hadn't bothered get top ups galore. Perfect example; one person pays into a pension as does her husband. She paid full stamp all her working life, but on retirement had to rent somewhere. She pays tax on some of her pension income and ends up with about £14,000 p.a.
Another woman the same age worked for a total of two years, no contributions, no savings so she get minimum pension guarantee, rent paid, Council tax paid, free glasses dentistry etc. Add all that lot together and it works out about the same as the first person. So people think; why bother to save for my retirement
Left or right people need to be looking at the real problems. Affordable (not just social) housing, benefits returning to their original design, a safety net, not a way of life. Those who are on benefits or in social housing having to make the same decisions on where they can afford to live as those renting in the private sector or buying. Stop making kids think they are entitled, but teach them they have to earn it. Make people feel comfortable doing "menial", physical, non degree type jobs. Behave like other European countries and employ UK citizens first. Our tribal politics is destroying this country. Labour know they screwed up, they allowed the UK to have 70% of all unsecured debt in the EU; more manufacturing closed under Nu Labour than under Thatcher, they opened the flood gates to the Poles (250,000) who can claim certain benefits and are willing to work for minimum wage. They tried to convince 50% of school leavers that the only answer is University, but ignored vocational and technical colleges and left the less academic swinging in the wind. They spent everything and then borrowed more and then more and at the same time turned a blind eye to the malpractices at the banks because it was the City that was keeping the country afloat.
Now 85% of the people who work in the South East (not London) can't afford to buy a property in their area, rents are out of control because buy - to - let landlords were given carte blanche by the FSA. We have high yout unemployment because in many cases they have not been sufficiently prepared for the work market and in others have expectations beyond their abilities. Health authorities are being crippled by PFI agreements, local authorities have Housing Benefits bills that are too high to be affordable.
I agree our Tax system is skew wiff, but taxing the top earners too highly is, and always has been counter productive (ask Harold Wilson)
Anyway I could go on, but I can't solve it, don't want live with it anymore so I will stop rant now!

[Robpthegills]

Hiya 2 points.

1. Sorry still disagree about the army and the miners strike. I have even rang some of my old buddies and asked them, they know of no such thing. Definately not in Kent anyway. Did it happen in other counties well who knows. Secondly when you think of all the scandals that have come out from things in the past and the way Thatcher is reviled nowadays do you not think some reporter would have published this version of events by now. There were LOTS of different uniforms outside the pits as different forces supported neighbouring forces. Some wore numbers on lapels some on collars some on badges. It is a well known fact that a visiting police force would be more up for trouble than the local force and trouble usually meant more overtime. Undercover SAS I really do not think so.

2. Rimshot, if i have been over sensitive I apologise. looking back I have had a tough week or 2 and am willing to accept that fact. For that I apologise.


I do worry though that unless 1 or both of the most popular parties starts to address some of the issues that are worrying the public then we could be in trouble. People keep disregarding UKIP as Nutters, that is because they are Nutters, but they are appealing to a very large populace.

The daily mail and its rants are ridiculous but it is the most popular newspaper in the country, so people obviously like the issues it is addressing.

All the time Labour and Conservatives continue to address the issues then the more the danger of us having lots or UKIP or other organisations in positions of power.