Drugs in Football?

[Poshgill]

As many of you will know, I am a massive fan of cycling. I have had to live (quite rightly) with the criticism of doping within the sport. However, I have always said that cycling is not the only sport involved in doping, it is just that cycling is more transparent and also is at the forefront of tackling the problem.

Recent revelations have shown that this is the case. The Fuentes case in Spain, where, originally it was aimed at the Doctor for introducing blood doping for cyclists, has shown that many sports stars, including Tennis players and footballers were clients of Fuentes. Even worse, it is alleged that the Spanish govt knew about footballers doping but suppressed the information 'for the good of the country'.

Next, an investigation in Australia has shown that there is a widespread doping culture within the country and it includes all sports, such as cricket and rugby.

And now we have Arsene Wenger reporting that he is concerned football is not doing enough to catch drug cheats within the game. It is interesting to note that footballers only have to give urine samples and these are pretty random. No blood samples are allowed to be taken from the players. Is that because UeAFA and FiFA are aware that there is a problem? (I'm not talking about social drugs here, I'm talking performance enhancing drugs)

We all know about cycling and drug abuse that has been rife for a while. However, EPO was invented by the Italians for Juventus players but soon spread to cycling.

I believe that cycling is doing more to combat doping in the sport than any other sport. Things like Out of competition testing, (where an inspector can turn up un-announced any time and any place to test a cyclist.) biometric passports that show a cyclists normal function range and if there is any deviation from this on testing then it is an indication something is wrong. And teams like Sky refusing to have any riders that have had a history of doping in their team.

Football won't even allow blood tests. I have to ask. Why?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... heats.html

[Garawa]

I do agree with but I feel it has all been blown out of proportion, another news story for the media to run away with. Athletes and tennis players (Greg Rusedski at the weekend described his tests and sounded pretty rigorous as was Jessica Ennis' when she described hers a while back) have been tested for years where they have to provide details of where they will be and never know if a knock at the door will occur. It seems to be a case of when you will be caught as opposed to if. The recent developments in cycling has cleaned up the sport no end and make anyone thinking of doing it again from running a mile but it has allowed the media to take it to a new level.

I trust the Daily Mail less than any red top, they seem to have an agenda to scare the public at any given opportunity. Last week they spoke about Facebook being able to track your every move (for targetted advertising) and can tell your friends exactly where you are even with your phone switched off! This of course nonsense and is an fact an app that potentially could allow that depending on the settings on the phone (easily switched off an Android phones). It is something apps for years have offered and anyone with a Blackberry probably uses often. It didn't stop a mass panic of civil liberty infringement cries. This article here says Venger is calling for blood tests to catch the cheats and then right at the bottom says he believes there is no issue with doping in football after everyone is made to believe there is!

I think it does need to be proactive in this issue before a major issue arrises but in team sports it really doesn't have as much of an impact as an individual sport where the person is separated from all the others by a matter of seconds.

[Poshgill]

Gary, I can assure you that the only sport taking drug abuse in sport seriously is cycling. Apart from cycling, no other sport has out of competition testing. Not sure what Ennis was on about but Athletics do not have out of competition testing and even some minor Athletics events still don't have testing. All winners of ALL races in cycling are tested with blood and urine tests as well as random tests and if you are a licensed cyclist, the testers can turn up at any time, day or night and you also have to advise what your destination is if you are going away. Imagine the uproar if a footballer was tested in his summer holiday. Tennis, Athletics and other sports do test competitors but these are only urine tests for winners with a very few random tests.

The link, although from the Mail (I can assure you, that is one paper I do not read!) was just one of many and was the first I came across. In fact I first read it in the Guardian. It seems that the British Media have conveniently overlooked this major story which was headlines in Europe but seems to have been relegated to lesser pages in this country. And if you think performance enhancing drugs are just to gain a few seconds and are not relevant to team sports, then I suggest you need to understand why sports people take drugs. It is about muscle build, stamina, strength, recovery and lots more besides.

[Garawa]

Tennis, Athletics and other sports do test competitors but these are only urine tests for winners with a very few random tests.

This isn't true or else two interviews I have seen with respected and clean sports stars was total BS. Rusedski joked about forgetting about the random test when he gave his location and was at home and the guy had to watch him pee. There was a lot more to the story he was telling. I know it was only a urine sample but the fact is he hadn't won, he hadn't just played and was at random, and not the only one he had had either.

if you think performance enhancing drugs are just to gain a few seconds and are not relevant to team sports, then I suggest you need to understand why sports people take drugs. It is about muscle build, stamina, strength, recovery and lots more besides.

I totally agree with that and I said a lot more must be done but still felt it had been exagerated. Surely a single sportsman is far more likely to cheat than those in a team unless we are saying entire teams are at it and its at a level far greater than we have ever imagined! Two reasons; in a team sport like football being 99% is possibly un-noticable but in cycling it might mean you come second just a second behind. The need is far greater. Secondly, if it is recommended by your trainer and only they know, the knowledge of getting away with is far greater than in a team of say a hundred where your every move and muscle is understood and any changes make it obvious to everyone who may cost you the job you love.

I am not saying there is no problem. I'm not saying footballers don't need to do because some will do for the reasons you give. I just think that in sports where time is measured in seconds it is always going to be more of an issue just like Bennetton shaving a millimeter off the floor of their F1 car to make it go faster.

[Poshgill]

Well as Rusedski was a proven drugs cheat who failed a test for Nandrolone in about 2004, I can only attribute his comments to his constant denial and blaming of the LTA for not informing him that a test was going to take place. (Any similarity to Rusedski and Rio Ferdinand are obviously coincidental ) Yes there are some random tests at events such as Wimbledon or US Open but they are at the event and most certainly do not have knocks on the door in the middle of the night. Same as Athletics. There is random testing at events but not out of competition testing as cycling.

Interesting to note that allegations about Oscar Pistorius coming out that he had illegal steroids in his house and was suffering from 'Roid Rage when he killed his girlfriend.

Well, interesting your perception of cycling as an individual sport. It is probably the ultimate team sport where riders have different abilities (Time trials, Mountain, Sprint) and they all work together and often sacrifice their own chance of winning for the team leader to take the glory. Also, EPO was devised in Italy for Juventus players so they had more stamina and were less resistant to injury.

that[quote="]Surely a single sportsman is far more likely to cheat than those in a team unless we are saying entire teams are at it and its at a level far greater than we have ever imagined![/quote].

Also, strong allegations coming form the Fuentes case in Spain that many players were doping. Seems to undermine your theory somewhat

[Garawa]

I am not saying cycling is a single sport but ULTIMATELY a race is one by ONE man beating another (potentially in a sprint of riders from separate teams where a second may separate the lot) just the same as a relay race ultimately ends with one man beating another. Yes of course there are team players within a cycling team but they don't all end the sport at the same point do they, they aren't all on a field competing as it ends. I am not a cycling expert like yourself but give me some credit here! Armstrong won many sprint finishes so how many did he win because he had "the edge"?

And again, I am not saying team sports are not involved in doping, my point about this is that if the Gills background staff decided to dope all the players, it only takes one of the 50 or so staff to disagree and blow the whistle and its all over. The only other way is that one player secretly does it, coerces another one and another one until eventually someone who disapproves finds out. Of course that has to be harder to do than say an athlete who has been encouraged to do it by his sports therapist (possibly the only one he has) as no-one would be likely to find out!

[gillsfan1066]

Undecided about drugs, only real reason I am against them is that it may stop someone who has worked their butt off and done it "the rite way" from making the team because someone who is taking supplements gets the spot on the roster.
Apart from that the greatest time in Baseball was during the drug era (1998 ---2002). Before that time 40 home runs a season was considered fantastic, suddenly players like Sosa, McGuire were in the batting title race hitting 66 and 70 home runs respectively and in 2003 Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs in a season and baseball was back .
Attendance increased, (and so did the size of the players heads and body's ) everybody was again talking about baseball a sport that for the previous ten years had been in the doldrums, bit like cricket befor the one day game came along.
Now it's time for these players to be elected into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown N.Y. , elected by the Baseball Writers Assoc. of America and no one was elected, the hypocrites that spent years singing the praises of Sosa , McGuire, Bonds and many others,who sold millions and millions of daily fish wraps during that period objected to the fact the players were taking steroids even though it has almost never been proved.
Lance Armstrong supposedly took drugs which gave him an advantage , but is it any more of an advantage than say if Team Sky comes up with a new wheel and tire that will not go flat or never punctures ?
If we find Ronaldo or Messi has been using some "magic cream" on their legs for 10 years do we suddenly drop them from any conversation of who is the best ever, or do we sit back and tell the grand kids how fantastic it was to see them play ?

[Poshgill]

Agreed Chicago. If everyone is doping, then surely the playing field had been levelled? The most exciting climber (cycling) I have ever seen was Marco Pantanni. It now transpires that he was smacked off his tits but does that take away the awe and excitement I had seeing him fly up mount ventoux?

Sorry Gary, Armstrong never won a sprint race in his life despite being doped to his eyeballs. The sprinter that reigned supreme at that time was Mario Cipollini. Armstrong may have won a race by having a quick spurt over another rider after a mountain stage, but that is not what is known as a 'Sprint Finish' (Cavendish is the greatest sprinter of all time. And he is clean) The reason Armstrong AND his entire team doped, was to give them endurance in multiple stage races. Not all cyclists have to win stages to win races. Cadel Evans won the Tour de France in 2011 without winning a single stage. He was just the most consistent rider over the entire race, so your analogy that cycling is like a relay race is a bit flawed.

I strongly believe that taking of drugs in sport is a cultural thing. If they are all doing it and want to play, then they will do as everyone else does. The thing about someone speaking out is proven to be false. Cycling had a thing about silence for years and if any cyclist spoke up about doping, then they never rode again, that is why the Armstrong affair not only took so long to come to notice but took a lot of investigating as no one would speak up against it. Who is to say that football isn't the same? I think Wenger's comments are the tip of the iceberg and it is only a question of time before the floodgates open and revelations come out.

[Snackboyslim]

What about darts and bowls??

[Robpthegills]

when is a drug an enhancement drug or not.

Is a drug banned that could give a player a bit more wind and energy after 80 minutes, yet an injection/drug that allows a player to even play at all is okay.
Often we hear players play a game after an injection that without such they would not take part.

My point being is that it is very easy to find things acceptable if you want to.

I for one, reckon football is rife with drugs, whether those drugs are illegal or should be deemed as such is another matter.

Gary mate, I would hand over the chinese football situation to suggest you might be wrong. They have just taken the title away from the winners of their league cause the whole team was at it.